Ann The Gran Community

I am new to machine embroidery and forums.  I went out and purchased various sizes of embroidery needles and stabalizers and thought I was ready.  Well, I am not.  I am getting a little better on T-shirsts and Sweatshirts but I am a quilter.  I will be embroiderying on quilters cotton (Batik, Moda Marble) a lot and I am having a problem with puckers on both materials.  I am thinking about trying cut away stablizer on both as an adhesive tear-a-way is not working but I am very confused about needles.  Someone recommended I use a sharp needle.  I can not find sharp embroidery needles on the internet only just sharp needles.  In my search I found your forum.  The tip on Badgemaster caught my eye.  I just purchased this product for In the Hoop projects and was hoping it worked.  Joined the forum right away after reading the tips.

Is there an embroidery sharp needle, and if so, will it help eliminate purckers on batik material?

Does anyone have any tips for embroiderying on Batik material?  Thank you for any help anyone can provide.  Logan, Ohio-New to Embroidery

Welcome to ATG.

Have you tried pre-washing the Batik?  This should remove the sizing and excess dye that may be causing the puckering.  You can then use spray sizing if the fabric is too limp and it will not be as "bullet-proof" as the factory sizing.

I use Organ brand titanium coated needles in either size 14 or 12.  The stabilizer used will depend on the density of the design. 

If I am embroidering through all three layers of the quilt, I do not use stabilizer.

Test designs and techniques.

You may also find it best to use over sized blocks for the embroidery and then cut to the size needed for the quilt.

Best wishes for many future (successful) project.

Hi,

I only have two type needles in the house, embroidery needles and top stitch needles.  I think when I use up all the embroidery ones I will only use top stitch after that.

As far as puckering goes, I too am a quilter and have made many many quilts with embroiedered blocks.  I have embroidered on everything tht could be put in the machine.  I only use a couple of stablizers, a medium cutaway, a light and medium tearaway, a product called Cloud Cover, a sheer and soft nylon stablizer. and a heat a way topping.  90% of the embroidery is done with the tear a way.

I use the Could Cover as a backing for tee's and ANY fabric that will stretch.  I just cut a small pieces and it has glue on one side that is heat activated, iron it where the design will go.  I will also use the nylon stablizer on tees and baby things for it is so soft and will not scratch.

I never never hoop anything that a design will go on.  I hoop one layer of stablizer, and I will float another if needed, I place my garment or fabric on the hoop AFTER if is attached to the machine.  If you have a basting outline on you machine use it.  I use a topping on everything.

Make it a habit to change your needle every 4th bobbin.  Embroidery dulls needles in a heart beat.

Hope this helps and belive me I embroider just about everyday.

Marge

where can I buy Organ needles in the UK

Barbara

Don't know about the UK, but you could try sewing shops, sewing machine shops or online.

Machine embroidery needles have a larger eye, and deeper scarf (the grove on the backside of the needle) then sewing needles.This allows the 40 weight embroidery threads to move smoothly through the needle to the fabric. Sharps are meant to be used with only densely or multi-directional woven fabrics such as denims and canvases. Using a sharp for embroidery will cause the fabric to puncture, cutting the threads of the fabric. You should be using a 90 embroidery needle.

The reason for puckering on the quilt/batik fabrics is either you have too much play in the fabric - ie the fabric is not hooped tight enough, you are using the wrong type of stabilizer OR you need to switch to a single hole stitch plate on your machine.

Try these troubleshooters:

1. Hoop the fabric tightly. Make sure that there is no "play" in the fabric. It should be taut.

2. Quilting fabrics & batiks should be stabilized with a good quality tear away stabilizer. A light version may not provide enough "stiffness". As a note, if you are quilting in the hoop, no stabilizer is needed. The quilt sandwich will be stable enough on it's own as long as it is taut in the hoop.

3. Lightweight cottons have a tendency to pucker on the lengthwise grain both in sewing and embroidery when you use a zig zag type stitch plate (one with a wide opening to allow for decorative/zigzag stitches). You see what happens is the fabric is pushed down into the wide slot with the needle down stroke, then pulled out with the upstroke, causing the puckering. The speed that an embroidery machine goes at only exasperates the problem. Changing to a single hole stitch plate controls the fabric movement thus the puckering.

Hope this helps!

Dianne

Thank you to everyone who responded to my questions.  I have found all the information to be very helpful. I am getting a lot better results with all of the helpful tips.

Hi Dianne,

I wasn't going to do this but I just had to post an answer to you.

Using a 'sharp or top-stitch needle is the best for embroidery.  I use Organ embroidery needles but if they made a top-stitch I would use them.  If you think I am wrong go the www.superiorthread.com and watch the video's on needles.

Hooping TIGHT is what causes puckering.  You are putting strain on the fabric and when it is released from the hoop you WILL have puckers.  I have NOT hooped anything except one layer of stablizer in years and I do some beautiful embroidery.  If I need more than one layer of stablizer I 'float' the other pieces. 

Don't hoop, use a topper, a sharp or top-stitch needle and see how beautiful your embroidery will be on whatever you do it on.

On the stitch plate, the fabric will not, can not get into the hole in the stitch plate while you are using a hoop. The only way this could happen is if the stablizer split and then really I don't think it could then because of the foot that is being used.  I have a single hole plate that I change when piecing and as soon as I am done I switch back to the other plate.

Marge

Good Morning,

I have a question concerning one of your tips. I am not sure what you mean when you say do not hoop. Do you mean to use a sticky stabilizer in the hoop only, and press the fabric on the sticky stabilizer, and top with water soluble or do you mean to adhesive the fabric to a medium weight tear away, top with a water soluble and stitch with no hoop attached to the machine at all. I would like to try your method on not hooping anything except one layer of stabilizer but I am not sure what you are doing as I am still new to some of the terms used in embroidery. I am still holding out on doing a quilt until I find the best method that works with batik material. My embroidered test blocks are looking a lot better but I am trying all of the suggestions that I can before I starting a large quilt for my husband. Thanks again for the great ideas to try. Mary in Logan, OH.

The hoop has to be attached for the EM to operate.

You can use sticky back stabilizer or you can hoop regular stabilizer and use spray adhesive for machine embroidery/quilting.

In addition, you can baste the item to the stabilizer by using the basting function or, if the EM does not have this feature you can use a running stitch frame which most EMs will have.

This is what is often referred to as "hoopless", meaning the item to be embroidered is not hooped.

Good Evening Mary,

To answer your question I do not hoop fabric, shirts, pants etc.  In other words nothing is hooped but the stablizer.  PattyAnn says to use a sticky stablizer or spray, I use neither.  My machine does have a basting or run around stitch.  After placing the hoop on the machine I line up whatever I am going to embroider, put a sheet of topping on, run the basting stitch and then I preceed with the actual embroidery.  If the design I am doing has more that 30,000 stitches then I do float a piece or two.  By floating this means that you put a piece UNDER the hoop right on the stitch plate.  Once you take a couple of stitches it is stuck to the bottom of the hooped piece.

Now I will take back about never using a sticky stablizer.  If I am doing a stretchy fabric or a very thin one then I will hoop with the sticky, but that is all.  NEVER use a sticky on towel or fleece, ask me how I know.

Hope this helps

Marge

I am finding that the number of stitches in the design play a large role in how the design turns out in addition to the stabilizer used.  When working with the batik material, I am finding that I do a lot better if I stay under 20,000 stitches.  I am going to try the floating an additional piece of stabilizer under the hoop as most of the designs I want to use in this quilt are around 23,000.  The one I did yesterday came out awful.  It was puckering while I was still embroidering it!!  I knew I was in trouble.  I tried a light weight tear away adhesive to the back of the batik and then place both on the sticky stabilizer.  I did not baste and it started loosing up from the sticky.  Oh boy, it was ugly.  I thought I was getting better (wanted to wing the hoop in the lake).  But I have some more tips to try, so thank you so much for all the help.

Lets do this one step at a time.  Batik's are no difference than any other fabric exept they have been dyed with a wax on the cloth.  20,000 stitches is a very small design for me.  Most of mine are between 40,000 and 60,000 stitches.  You should have no problem with just 22,000

This is what I would like you to try.

1.  Hoop a piece of medium tear-away stablizer.  Make sure it is tight.  Put the hoop on the machine.

2, Put a piece of light weight tearaway under the hoop.

3,  Put in a new needle if you haven't the last couple of times you tried using the machine.  I change needles every 4th bobbin.

4,  Lay your fabric on the hoop, if you have a basting option use it, otherwise just GENTLY keep the fabric in place till the machine takes about a 100 or so stitches.  Do not stretch or try and reposition the fabric after the machine starts.  Let the machine do its thing,

5, Let me know how you did.  If you have a camera take some pictures and post them so we can see what is going on.

Marge In Fl.

The reason you are having puckerting issues is that there is too much movement of the fabric as the design is being stitched. Simply put, it is not stable enough. I've mentioned some troubleshooting hints in my other posts here, but here's some more:

1. Use the smallest hoop possible for the design size. For instance, if the design measures 98mm x 119mm, you should use a 120 x 120 hoop. The reason is that the greater the distance from the design to the hoop, the more "play" can develop in the fabric.

2. Starch the fabric well prior to hooping to stiffen it.

3. Do not baste the fabric into the hoop. You will need to hoop it to properly stabilize it.

4. Use "Hoop Ease" and/or hoop clips. Hoop Ease is a Husqvarna Viking product that fills in the gaps between the hoop and the fabric. It is a ring of sticky lightweight batting. I'm not sure if it is offered by other embroidery manufacturers under different names. Hoop clips allow you to wrap the fabric around the hoop from the back to the front of the hoop. Both of these to the same thing - tightening the fabric in the hoop, making it more stable.

5. Be sure to use a good quality Tear Away stabilizer under, and water soluble top coat stabilizer. Hoop the stabilizer sandwich with the fabric between them.

All these hints should ensure that you have the best possbile results when embroidering on lightweight cottons like batiks.

Good luck,

Dianne 

Cat, try the design on a different fabric.  It could also be the design is too dense.  When the design is too dense, enlarging it a tiny bit may help.

If this is an issue no matter the fabric or design, the machine may need to be serviced.

Hi Marge,

I'll try your method, and mine using the same design and machine. I'll post pics of the results for comparison.

Dianne

Good Evening, I am having a lot better results now thanks to all of you.   I posted some pictures in the Embroidery & Sewing Project Gallery under the General Heading. 

One of the pictures shows three blocks.  The first block at the top is the awful one that puckered beyond belief.

The middle block I used the hoop less method shared in the forum.  I started with washed and starched material, a new 90/14 embroidery needle, and a medium weight tear away stabilizer tightly hooped.  I then attached my hoop to the machine.  Next the batik material with a topper was placed on the attached hoop and basted down.  I then floated a light weight tear away under the hoop.  I am very happy with the result.  It looks really nice.

The bottom block was hooped with a medium weight tear away stabilizer, batik material and topper all together in the hoop.  They were hoop tautly, basted and I again used a light weight tear away under the hoop.  I again was very happy with the results.  It looks real good. 

The design consisted of 22,165 stitches.

Wow, what a great help all of you have been. I did post another picture of a small wall hanging that I made out of the practice blocks I had left over since starting to read this forum in addition to a table runner made out of the initial samples. Thanks again so much! I really hope to share the quilt I have wanted to make with all of you in the near future.   

Happy Mary in Logan, Ohio.

Have you done the designs yet?

Marge

Good to hear you had good results with the testing.

Here is your photo - http://www.annthegran.com/cs/media/p/20330.aspx

Marge, I felt you were right here with me.  I loved the fact you said Batik's are no different.....and the one step at a time .... and the outline.  Thanks for staying with me and following up today.

Mary in Logan, Ohio.