Ann The Gran Community

I have a Brother Innovis 4000D.  I find that the face side of the embroidery is fine but the back is really untidy - it would not be suitable to embroider towels or anything that leaves the back of the work exposed.  In fact, I so dislike the mess (it spoils the finished work) that I have to put a backing on everything I make.  Does anyone know if this is this something I should expect, please?  I have to say, it limits what I am prepared to make.   This is my first time using the forum.  I live in the UK and don't know who to ask about this.  I would appreciate any advice, please. Thankyou.  Angela 

You need to adjust your tension for your bobbin case.  In fact, your bobbin case may very well be bad.  Bird nests (what your problem is called in the US) is not uncommon.  Covering the back is OK, but if the front gets snagged, I am not sure what will happen to the front threads.  Take photos if you are able and upload them in a reply using the film strip icon.

Take a look at my blog on tension.  I called it needles, but it had a lot more info than just needles.

It is interesting, of all my blogs (which I research carefully), this one is the one that I make reference to the most.  When you see the diagrams, you will be more knowledgeable and just plain savvy about your machine and the techniques.

Pat, The Avid Embroiderer

Bird nesting is a tangle of loops on the back of the embroidery and usually means the bobbin area needs cleaning - refer to the maintenance section of the manual for your machine.  Read and apply as looking at the pictures alone may cause you to over look important steps.

If loops are not the issue and you just don't like the look of jump stitches on the back side of the item, you can cover them with an iron-on product* or use iron-on tricot sold with interfacing in fabric shops.

 *http://www.thesewphisticatedstitcher.com/sotoironbawh.html

Hello Pat - thank you so much for taking the time to reply.  I will certainly try what you have suggested.  What I can't understand is that this has been a problem from the machine being brand new and was also the same with my Galaxie.  I hope I can sort it out, I will be so much happier with my work.  It is also a real bind getting the stabiliser off, largely because of the mess and the trailing threads.  I have even resorted to trimming jump threads at the back of the work but find it then unravels the front!  I am retiring from my full time work in two weeks time and I want to be able to do more on my machine.   Thanks again. Angela

hello Pattiann - Thank you for your response to my dilemma.  I have been away over the bank holiday weekend but I plan to have a look at my machine tomorrow and will certainly try what you have suggested.  Because I have had this problem since my machine was brand new (and with my Glaxie before it), I thought it was just something I should expect.  I dont know anyone locally I can get advice from so this has been very helpful.  I retire in two weeks time and want to enjoy using my machine more!  I hope I will be able to, knowing that help is at hand.  Best regrads Angela

Thankyou Pat71896.  I already sent you a 'quick reply'.  I hope you got that.  I am so grateful to you and Pattiann for your advice to your English cousin!  I am looking forward to trying it out and improving my work - and my self satisfaction!  It is great to know I have lots of someones out there ready to share their skills and knowledge.  Thanks again Angela

Hello again Pat - I have done what you and Pattiann suggested (changed the needle, cleaned the race etc and made sure that I was winding the boobin thread correctly).  No change. sadly!  I have attached pictures of a test piece I have just completed.  That wasn't easy, either!  I hope they will give you some idea of the problem I am facing.  By the way, this was sewn out with Brothers own thread and using one of the designs built into the machine!  Please let me know what you think.  Thanks Angela

Thanks for the pix, great detail.

If the stitching is also loose and bunchy when sewing, the timing is off and needs to be adjusted by the dealer.

 a tension problem, needs to be taken to a dealer for a good servicing and it should be good as new to sew with.

Hi Charlie,

Sounds to me like a tension problem,This happens to me occasionally ,and I take out my bobbin and rethread and it`s fine ,You have probably done this

BUT KEEP TRYING. i HAVE JUST JOINED aNN`S CLUB AND AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SOME DISCUSSIONS .i HAVE A hUSQUVARNA  VIKING AND A sINGER fuTURA 350 . hAVE BEEN EMBROIDERING ABOUT 2 YRS ,(FAIRLY NEW AT IT),BUT SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON IT  AND ENJOY IT ,

hOPING TO HEAR FROM SOME Husquvarna and Futura users   Happy Embroidering   Joyce :)

Hi Joyce and thanks for your reply.  I am afraid I have had to send the machine back to Brother because the fault could not be resolved by myself or the local repair agent.  It has been with Brother for at least three weeks and will not be back with me before November.  My threading isnt the problem - this machine (Innovis 4000D) threads itself - this seems to be the problem because I cannot even get to the threading poiunts behind the self threading mechanism.  Brother UK tell me they are waiting for a modified part from Japan.  I have beeen able to find a few bloggs relating to this and it would appear that this problem is not unusal for this machine.

I have been embroidering for about 4 years.  Last month, I retired from my full time job as an occupational therapist in a local hospital.  I was hoping to be able to spend a bit more time using my machine!  I also have a really old Singer Futura but it is about 24 years old so is quite basic by todays standards.  I used to do lots of sewing - even teaching dressmaking, tailoring etc and also soft furnishings.  I don't want that kind of responsibility now though - I will stick to my embroidery (when I get my machine back).  Good luck to you.

Angela 

Charlie207:

Hi Joyce and thanks for your reply.  I am afraid I have had to send the machine back to Brother because the fault could not be resolved by myself or the local repair agent.  It has been with Brother for at least three weeks and will not be back with me before November.  My threading isnt the problem - this machine (Innovis 4000D) threads itself - this seems to be the problem because I cannot even get to the threading poiunts behind the self threading mechanism.  Brother UK tell me they are waiting for a modified part from Japan.  I have beeen able to find a few bloggs relating to this and it would appear that this problem is not unusal for this machine.

I have been embroidering for about 4 years.  Last month, I retired from my full time job as an occupational therapist in a local hospital.  I was hoping to be able to spend a bit more time using my machine!  I also have a really old Singer Futura but it is about 24 years old so is quite basic by todays standards.  I used to do lots of sewing - even teaching dressmaking, tailoring etc and also soft furnishings.  I don't want that kind of responsibility now though - I will stick to my embroidery (when I get my machine back).  Good luck to you.

Angela 

Did you ever get your Brother machine going?  I'm curious since I'm starting to have some bird nest tensionn problems myself and have been following this discussion for resolution.  Hope all is well with your machine.

You have really had a time with that one!

We all hope things are going better.  I used to work on a PC Help desk.  One thing I learned was that not all problems were resolvable.

Sometimes we would find Microsoft saying "you may get unexpected results."  That was their way of saying - we don't know either!!!

Tell Brother we are all watching them - - that is weird, we are watching 'big' Brother?? 

Pat

Hello degamble and thanks for your interest.  I am afraid I don't have any news.  Brother UK have not been back in touch with me as yet.  They were waiting for a modified part to be sent over from Japan (something to do with the automatic threading mechanism, I understand).  Clearly there has been an underlying problem with this otherwise there would not be a modified part available.  Obviously Japan is a very long way from the UK - hence my lengthy wait for the part!  Is someone strolling over with it, do you think?  I plan to call them this week in the hope that they can give me some idea when it will be ready.  It is very frustrating, as you can imagine.  However, I am not being charged for the parts but the set labour charge for this machine has cost me £352 including VAT - government tax ($570 - approx $85 of this is VAT).  Originally, it was going to be ready within five working days.  I just hope that this will resolve the problem once and for all.  If it doesn't, it will be the last Brother machine I buy.  Anyway, I am trying to keep positive but, whatever, I will post a report when it does come back!  Thank you all for your interest.

Hi again Pattiann and everyone who has been following the progress with my Brother Innovis 4000D.  It arrived back last week 7th December - complete with modified part (threading mechanism).  I have uploaded some pictures to show the results of this three month wait!  I have done the same design twice - once without automatic trimming of the top jump stitch (best result) and once with the auto trimmer working.  It seems to me that there is no good reason to have an automatic trimmer if this is what it does to the work!  I would be interested to know if other users of this machine have the same issues, please?

I dont know if there is a blog about how to deal with removing tearaway/trimmed stabilisers but can those of you with any experience let me know how you deal with this on items like towels and hankys where the back of the work is very visible, please?  The same goes for the jump stitch thread at the back of the work.  Should it be trimmed or will the work unravel?  Is there any domestic machine that does leave a reasonably/acceptable finish to the back of the work (without loops and jump threads)?

My frustration with this has led me to begin looking at other machines, even semi industrial.  Does anyone have recommendations, please?  I have been told to look at Janome 1100 (though it has a smaller embroidery field) and a Bernina 8 series 830.  However, I have been told that the change from the rotary hook type spool system has resulted in some problems with this machine.  I would appreciate any input.

Am I being too sensitive about all of this?  Is this how I should expect my work to look and just choose to embroider items that enable me to conceal the back of the work? 

Any help will be most appreciated.  Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy new year to everyone.

Angela  

Wow!  The back of the embroidery should not look like this.  Double check the bobbin to make sure the bobbin thread is feeding from the bobbin spool in the correct direction and is in the guides on the side of the bobbin case.

Are you using a thread stand?  The upper thread may be feeding too fast.  Try dropping a spool in a cup, then thread as usual to add a little more tension to the thread.

Is this metallic thread?  Run a bead of Sewer's Aid (found with sewing notions) down the side of the spool of thread that is being.  This is a silicon product and helps prevent tangles. 

I hope this will help and that others will add their suggestions.

Hi and thanks again for your input, Pattiann.  Well, this is the first thing I have used my machine for straight back from Brother UK service!  There really should be nothing wrong with the spool because it was in situ when it came back from Brother - having been tested prior to return.  The thread is a Brother product, not metallic and not threaded through a thread stand (threaded through the machine only).  What is also worrying is that the lower thread broke at one point but the machine never sensed it and just carried on attempting to sew - I stopped manually.  I have never had that happen before.  The machine was very sensative and would stop with frayed thread or almost empty spool etc.

As I said in my last contact, I believe the tension must be OK because, as you can see, when I didn't use the automatic cutter (for the top jump stitch) the back of the work was much improved. I am going to get back in touch with Brother on Monday to discuss this with them.  When I spoke to the engineer, he told me that using the cutters could be a factor in this.  Apparently, every time the machine begins to sew (other than after a untrimmed jump stitch), the top thread is pushed through to the underside of the work a little way - ergo, if the thread cutter is used, there are lots of new start points all over the work with a straggly end of coloured silk.  Apparently domestic embroidery machines are not so finely tuned that they can deal with this start point as effectively as commercial ones - ie commercial machines are able to lock the start point without the stray length of thread being carried through to the back of the work.

Do you have any experience of automatic thread cutters?  Can I ask what machine you use, please?  I would love to see some examples of the back of other peoples work (particularly the same model as mine) with and without using the automatic thread cutters.  I don't know if I am allowed to include my home email address on this site - if I am, I would gladly leave it to enable people to contact me direct.

For the time being - thank you again and bye for now.

Angela 

Firstly - the site does discourage posting personal e-mails only because this is an open forum and spammers could pick up your address.

If the engineer suspects the thread cutter is the culprit, then it will require trimming after each stop to acheive the look you want on the reverse side.

I have a Babylock Ellegante, that does have the auto cutter.  It can be by-passed, but then I would have a lot more trimming to do.

Charlie207:

 

Hi again Pattiann and everyone who has been following the progress with my Brother Innovis 4000D.  It arrived back last week 7th December - complete with modified part (threading mechanism).  I have uploaded some pictures to show the results of this three month wait!  I have done the same design twice - once without automatic trimming of the top jump stitch (best result) and once with the auto trimmer working.  It seems to me that there is no good reason to have an automatic trimmer if this is what it does to the work!  I would be interested to know if other users of this machine have the same issues, please?

I dont know if there is a blog about how to deal with removing tearaway/trimmed stabilisers but can those of you with any experience let me know how you deal with this on items like towels and hankys where the back of the work is very visible, please?  The same goes for the jump stitch thread at the back of the work.  Should it be trimmed or will the work unravel?  Is there any domestic machine that does leave a reasonably/acceptable finish to the back of the work (without loops and jump threads)?

My frustration with this has led me to begin looking at other machines, even semi industrial.  Does anyone have recommendations, please?  I have been told to look at Janome 1100 (though it has a smaller embroidery field) and a Bernina 8 series 830.  However, I have been told that the change from the rotary hook type spool system has resulted in some problems with this machine.  I would appreciate any input.

Am I being too sensitive about all of this?  Is this how I should expect my work to look and just choose to embroider items that enable me to conceal the back of the work? 

Any help will be most appreciated.  Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy new year to everyone.

 

 

Just a little FYI, when you insert a photo, grab the handles (click on the photo to get the handles) and make it a bit smaller so we can see it better.

I am really hard pressed to understand how Brother would let a machine be returned to a client when it has not been checked out thoroughly, but I suppose stranger things have happened.  I also cannot see a lot because the jump stitches need to be clipped to clarify what is a problem and what is left over from the design.  Hopefully this does not show where you have clipped jump and finish stitching!!!  You might want to try this - There is a small screw on your bobbin that can be adjusted CAREFULLY!  I would sew a small sample on a piece of denim.  Then I would adjust that screw no more than 3 to 5 degrees (of a 360 degree circle) clockwise and move the design or fabric away from the first sew out and do it again.  Compare and decide what you think.  DO NOT MOVE IT ANY MORE THAN THAT. 

Jump stitches have a (assuming it was properly digitized) 'set' stitch that is meant to hold the ending stitch and beginning stitch both.  I usually do cut them depending on their length.  For instance, I would cut short stitches, half way, because sometimes they will cause puckering at that spot.  I cut longer stitches about mm (.5 inches) from the stop/start positions.  If it is something like a tote, a long stitch could be a problem by getting a fingernail or ring caught.  I also trim my start and stop stitches for a single color, but just enough for them not to be lengthy.  I have never had a machine that did automatic jump trim, but it seems to me that you should be able to adjust the 'tail' that is left over.  I can adjust my end of color trim and frankly, they seem totally similar to me. 

For the stabilizer, I have had a lot of challenges with my stabilizers over time.  One think I have determined for me, your results may be different, I use an adhesive water soluble for hankies and pashminas.  I run tepid water over them for about 60 seconds and then let them soak (the whole hankie or just the corner of the pashmina) in warm water for about 2 hours.  My latest blog goes over the issues with my pashminas which would 'pull' the threads askew (different from the "pull" issues of digitizing) ruining my projects.  That might help you. 

Stabilizers are complex and I try to use tear away as often as possible and my favorites are by Ann by my own choice, not for any other reason.

Lastly, I swear by my Baby Lock, I had an Elageo and loved it - then came the 10 Needle BN10 Enterprise and I was hooked.  I love my machine.  I cannot say enough about it.  Baby Lock was founded by some engineers from Brother who thought they had a better idea.

I agree with them.

Pat, The Avid Embroiderer

Hello Pat

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me the benefit of your good advice (on all aspects.  As you can tell, I am not very familiar with forums - I had made my pictures smaller when I edited them and hoped this would reduce their size when I imported them to the site).  I will be in touch with Brother tomorrow and also try what you have suggested.  I must confess this has almost driven me away from the craft altogether.  This machine was so expensive and, since I am now retired, getting another will be tough.

Regards Angela